[XviD-devel] xvid license

Tue Apr 22 22:47:23 CEST 2003

Ok, first of all I don't want to spam you guys with this, so this is my
last post to your list, appoligize to those who are already annoyed with
my nagging :)

On Tue, 2003-04-22 at 19:47, Christoph Lampert wrote:
> On 22 Apr 2003, Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > Well if you don't mind such usage why not make xvid LGPL? 
> 
> No way, that something completely different.  We have nothing against
> users using XVID with any application they like, but we sure don't want
> all companies in the world to bundle XVID with their stuff. We don't want
> XVID be part of any proprietary application.
> 
> > As for the GPL
> > allowing such usage, well not everyone agrees. We (gstreamer) had a long
> > talk with Richard Stallman and he was very clear that if GStreamer
> > allowed non-GPL apps to use GPL plugins we would be a vehicle for
> > rampant license violations. 
> 
> No, I think that _is_ very clear. GPL doesn't restrict _usage_ of any
> kind. But destribution of derived works is forbidden, so Adobe must not
> bundle Premiere with XVID (just an example). 
> If GStreamer contained XVID, and GStreamer can be included into any
> proprietary application (LGPL) then possibly people would include all
> plugins, including XVID, too. But that doesn't make it legal to do so, 
> so we have nothing against GStreamer users using XVID as plugin, but it
> should not be part of a  GStreamer application/distribution.  
Well the issue I see is that Red Hat ships with GStreamer including the xvid
plugin. Someone makes a video encoding application using a non-GPL compatible 
license (doesn't need to be properietary, could be using the MPL for instance) 
that is using the GStreamer framework to provide its encoding capabilities.

Red Hat decides to also bundle this application (because it is still
free software, just not GPL compatible) which means a application
incompatible with the GPL is shipping in a package (Red Hat Linux)
together with the xvid plugin and the rest of  GStreamer. 

Question then is if a license violation occurs, and if so who is to
blame. The application developer for not making sure his application do
not call the xvid plugin, or us for not making sure the application is
not able to call the xvid plugin or Red Hat for shipping the two
together or the user who use the two together.

> Maybe Richard Stallman doesn't agree with that, but I see no logical
> alternative. We can't forbid Adobe to create Premiere with VfW Interface,
> and it would be ridiculous to sue any user who clicks on XVID when it
> appears in the plugin list. 
> The only other way to solve this would be to forbid GPL applications to
> use APIS which also proprietary applications might use. Not an
> alternative...
> 
> > In reponse to this we added a license factory field to each of our
> > plugins and our long term plans include having applications activly
> > having to tell GStreamer that they are allowed to access GPL
> > applications. At that time any non-GPL compatible application would be
> > effectivly cut of from functionality offered by GPL plugins (like xvid
> > currently is)
> 
> So why is GStreamer LGPL? It's no problem to integrate LGPL plugins into
> GPL applications, because you can always distribute under the stricter
> license. 
The reason we are LGPL is probably the reason you are not, we want to allow 
people to use our framework no matter what license they choose for their
software. We see this as crucial towards Linux/FreeBSD being able to
compete head on against Microsoft and MacOS.

> gruel
> 
> 
> P:S. I don't want to advertise our competitors, but if you don't have
> a plugin for FFmpeg, yet: It's LGPL and very powerful. 
Thanks for the tip, but we already do have a ffmpeg plugin. Not sure why Ronald 
choose to make a xvid plugin, but I guess it must have been cause it
felt it provided better quality than the ffmpeg one.

Christian
>  
> > Christian
> > 
> > On Tue, 2003-04-22 at 13:24, Christoph Lampert wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > I don't think it would be possible to make everyone agree to this. Not
> > > because we don't like GStreamer, but because already including the linking
> > > exception in the last release was a "mistake". We thought it was necessary
> > > for users in order to use XVID with non-GPLed Windows applications like
> > > Adobe Premiere, but the truth is, it isn't. GPL just forbids distribution
> > > of such a combination, not usage. The next release of XVID (soon to come)
> > > will not contain any linking exception anymore. 
> > > 
> > > gruel 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 22 Apr 2003, Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > I am with the GStreamer project (http://www.gstreamer.net) which is
> > > > creating a full featured multimedia framework for Linux and Unix
> > > > plattforms. We are just putting the finishing touches on an encoder
> > > > plugin using xvid. GStreamer is LGPL and due to that wish that as many
> > > > of our plugins as possible is available under terms that makes them
> > > > useable on the same terms as the LGPL sets. 
> > > > 
> > > > I looked at your license and see that you have a special exception for
> > > > VFW1.1 and DShow interfaces, and was wondering if we could get a similar
> > > > exception for applications that access xvid through GStreamer. If so we
> > > > would be very greatful. 
> > -- 
> > Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller <Uraeus at linuxrising.org>
> > 
> > 
> 
-- 
Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller <Uraeus at linuxrising.org>